NEW YORK (AP) _ As Kamala Harris and Donald Trump campaign for the next election, they both have eschewed the traditional legacy outlets in favor of engaging directly with new media platforms. Major news organizations, such as NPR, The New York Times, PBS, and The Washington Post, found themselves knocking on the back door for an interview with them; instead Harris is going for podcasts such as Alex Cooper's "Call Her Daddy" and sports talks on "All the Smoke." Trump's approach has been the opposite as he preferred more informal encounters rather than doing the traditional "60 Minutes," resorted to more casual spots like "Bussin' With the Boys" and "Flagrant." This has been Harris's observation from her NFL legend Shannon Sharpe on "Club Shay Shay."
The trend toward podcasts indicates a more profound shift in the media landscape. Regarding more-traditional media appearances, Harris appeared on NBC News and even hosted a CNN town hall, but overall, this is a trend of candidates increasingly shunning old-school journalism to make way for podcast-based programming based on specific audiences.
Traditionally, sit-down interviews on programs like "60 Minutes" used to be considered not just nice-to-haves but necessities for candidates during election cycles. But with Trump and Harris choosing more-offbeat venues, legacy media outlets have a lot to stew about - their waning influence, that is.
Sara Just, senior executive producer of PBS "NewsHour," remarked, "It's always our hope that they'll do long, probing interviews with PBS." Indeed, NPR's Eric Marrapodi said that "Americans deserve to hear the candidates' ideas challenged."
The charm of podcasts is in their ability to reach niche audiences directly. For instance, Harris went on Charlamagne Tha God's show to speak to Black men, while coming on more mainstream outlets like the chats she did with popular outlets helped her reach a younger, far less politically engaged audience. Ratings are stark: CNN's nightly viewership has fallen from 1.24 million in 2016 to about 924,000 today, which approximately follows the trend of the erosion of traditional media audiences.
Candidates like Harris and Trump realize now that participating in media, which can address a message to the reached target groups would be more rewarding. Podcasts, for instance, have doubled in listenership since 2016, giving potential candidates an opportunity to establish loyalty for the constituents who identify with the personalities of the hosts.
Threats to Old Media
When put together with viewership decline, this shows a huge problem with the role of traditional media in politics today. Newspapers are affected similarly; candidates no longer rely upon these prints to be endorsed. In fact, whereas U.S. Sunday circulation once stood at 37.8 million in 2016, by 2022 it declined to 20.9 million.
While podcasts allow candidates to speak directly to their audiences, the potential also exists for creating echo chambers that might avoid critical scrutiny. Friendly banter on a podcast like "Flagrant" lets Trump share his views while sidestepping all those challenging questions a traditional interview might raise.
What's Next
There remains one important caveat from experts: Don't count out old media completely. "There is a place for the reporting of established news outlets in these high-stakes public debates," said Rick Klein, ABC's Washington bureau chief, of traditional journalism. The competition in other areas of media still largely rests with legacy outlets. Six of the ten most viewed campaign news sources on TikTok were old news organizations.
Mark Lukasiewicz, dean of the School of Communication at Hofstra University, says it is time to demand more from candidates in the way of journalistic integrity rather than offering them access to the press. David Halbfinger is political editor for The New York Times. He thinks it is too soon to make any definitive pronouncements about media strategies in this campaign.